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The podcast episode delves into the intricate dynamics of community within a post-Christian context, highlighting the necessity of belonging and the transformative power of genuine fellowship.
Irwyn Ince Jr. articulates a profound understanding of community as a divine reality, drawing upon the concept of perichoresis to illustrate the interplay of unity and diversity within the Trinity. This theological foundation suggests that true community is not merely a human construct but a reflection of God’s nature.
As the discussion unfolds, it becomes evident that the journey towards authentic community demands vulnerability and a willingness to extend oneself beyond familiar boundaries, particularly for those from minority backgrounds.
Along with Ince, Jr., the episode features insights from such leaders as Bishop Claude Alexander, Allen Yeh, Stephen O. Presley, O. Alan Noble, N.T. Wright and Michael Goheen emphasize that the church, as a microcosm of the Kingdom of God, must embody diversity and reconciliation. Ince Jr. poignantly raises critical questions regarding the cost of belonging, urging listeners to consider the sacrifices individuals make in pursuit of genuine community and the importance of creating spaces where all voices are heard and valued. The overarching message underscores the call for maturity within the church, advocating for a collective journey that embraces discomfort as a catalyst for growth and unity, ultimately reflecting the beauty of the Gospel in a fractured world.
Takeaways:
- The need for community and belonging is essential for every individual, transcending mere desire to become a fundamental requirement.
- The concept of perichoresis, representing the divine dance within the Trinity, serves as a foundational principle for understanding authentic community.
- True community is not merely a human construct but rather a reflection of God’s divine nature, emphasizing unity amidst diversity.
- Engaging with diverse perspectives within the church enriches our understanding of God and enhances our communal worship experience.
- The journey towards authentic community necessitates maturity, which often entails discomfort and personal growth in faith.
- To fully embody the Gospel, the church must embrace its missional identity, engaging with the world in love, justice, and faithfulness.
Keep up with updates from Apollos Watered: The Center for Discipleship & Cultural Apologetics.
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Transcript
Here's the thing everybody wants. Not just wants. We need community. We need belonging. We need to be in a community where we are loved and we love, where we are affirmed and we affirm.
Travis Michael Fleming:Welcome to those who Serve the Lord, a podcast for those at the front lines of ministry. You've given your life to serve, but what happens when the well runs dry?
If you felt the weight of leadership, the tension between tradition and change, or the challenge of staying faithful while engaging culture, you're not alone. I'm Travis Michael Fleming, founder and executive director of Apollo's Watered, the Center for Discipleship and Cultural Apologetics.
I've been at the front lines for over 25 years, leading churches to become thriving testimonies of God's grace. I've wrestled with the same questions you're facing, and I've seen how God brings renewal even in the hardest seasons.
Each week we have conversations with pastors, theologians and cultural thinkers as we seek to equip you to lead well and stay rooted in Christ amid shifting cultural tides. So grab your coffee and listen in, because your faith matters, your work is not in vain, and the Lord is still with you every step of the way.
What kind of community is God forming in our fractured post Christian world?
In this episode of those who Serve the Lord, we explore the great community, a people grounded in the life of the Trinity, forged in love across lines of difference, formed through discipleship and sent into the world as a sign of God's coming kingdom. Today we'll be featuring insights from theologian and bridge builder Erwin Entz Jr.
Whom We just heard from at the beginning of the show, Pastor Claude Alexander, missiologist Alan Yehudis, early church historian Stephen O. Presley, cultural observer O. Allen Noble, New Testament scholar N.T. wright, and missional theologian Michael Goheen.
When we talk about the great community, we're not just talking about something we do. We're talking about something that God is. Community is not just a human invention. It's a divine reality.
And no one articulates that better than Irwyn Ince Jr.
Who reminds us that the foundation for all true community is found in the triune God himself and the divine dance of love and unity we call perichoresis.
Irwyn Ince, Jr.:Yeah, that divine dance. The term that's used, the Greek term, is perichoresis, which describes the Trinity, the life of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit in a divine dance.
Mutual love, mutual glorification, mutual support. They're working together, aware of one another's purposes, glorifying one another.
This a perfect unity, and yet a perfect diversity The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Spirit, the Spirit is not the Father and the Son. And yet they're the one God in. And this is. I use this example in, in the book from that show that used to come on so youo Think youk Can Dance.
And we used to watch it as a family and loved seeing dance.
And, you know, the best ones or the ones that were most captivating to me were the partner dances when the, you know, the couple would be perfectly choreographed, right? Because perichoresis. Right. Our English word choreography is rooted in that. In that word as well, or derived from it, I should say. And right.
There's a beauty there, right? In that choreography, right? And then. But they've given everything at the end of the dance, right?
They strike a pose, they are sweating, they're perspiring, they're smiling, and their hearts are like beating out of their chest because they have exhausted themselves, right? And I think about our God in this perfect choreography of dance and support, mutual love and support, but he never gets exhausted.
It's an eternal divine dance, right? 4. And it gets directed for our good, right? In creation. And so this has significance for what it means for us to be the image of God. Right?
For us to be. We're actually made for this kind of unity and diversity.
We're actually made for this kind of love across lines of difference as image bearers to reflect the glory of God to the world.
Travis Michael Fleming:If the Trinity is a divine dance of unity and diversity, then the church made in God's image should reflect that same beauty. But living into that vision isn't easy. In fact, for many believers, especially ethnic minorities in majority culture churches, it comes at a cost.
Irwyn Ince Jr shares what that often looks like in real life.
Irwyn Ince, Jr.:When you have a, you know, a majority, let's just say a majority white church or a dominant culture church, and you have someone who's an ethnic minority comes to be a part of that church. People who may be an ethnic minority joining a majority culture church when they do it, church membership is voluntary, right?
Nobody's forcing you to join. So there's a reason why people are joining these churches and everybody, here's the thing everybody wants, not just wants. We need community.
We need belonging. We need to be in a community where we are loved and we love, where we are affirmed and we affirm. Right? We actually need that.
And so very often what happens is folks who have, I think minorities have joined majority culture churches do so for a reason. But folks who are part of the Majority culture just think, oh, well, they just kind of want to be here. And they like the preaching or they like the.
They found some friends or something along those lines. Something has happened and they. And very often, folks don't go deeper to wonder, huh, what does it actually cost you to. To find belonging here? Right.
Folks who are ethnic minorities. Very often I talk about it sometimes as this mission mindset.
Come in and say, okay, I know that you don't have a lot of experience and friendships with people who come from my background, so I'm willing to help you with that. And that's sometimes a conscious decision. Sometimes it's just what folks do. But that has an expiration date.
Like, you can't wear that kind of load indefinitely. Right.
And I will often ask in my travels back when I could travel, hopefully that's coming again, meeting with folks who are ethnic minorities and majority culture churches and saying, you know, what does it cost you to be here? Whatever you had to give up. And it's not as though they were unwilling to do it.
The issue is regularly, the first time they've been asked that kind of question, it's just been assumed that there isn't a real cost to the folks who are ethnic minorities. And this is something you also have to just kind of walk gently through, you know, just show up, hey, what's it cost you to be here for?
You know, to somebody who's an ethnic minority?
But it's being desirous to learn those things and recognizing that it's likely that they've had to do the majority of the shifting and the adjusting to find a sense of belonging to. And hospitality.
And it's just typically due to a lack of awareness by folks who are part of a majority culture and not asking the questions about, okay, well, how do we become a body that is more welcoming to our diverse neighbors? What does that. What might that look like for us? That's challenging work. That's uncomfortable work.
Travis Michael Fleming:So if belonging can come with a cost, especially for those from minority backgrounds, then what does it take to move forward? Bishop Claude Alexander reminds us that the journey toward true community is also a journey toward maturity.
And maturity always involves discomfort, growth, and the willingness to be stretched.
Bishop Claude Alexander:What we are talking about is accepting the call to maturity. And maturity always has some tension, some rub, right? That's growing pains, you know. Yeah, growing pains.
Travis Michael Fleming:And.
Bishop Claude Alexander:And so if I anchor it in the notion of maturity, my growth in Christ by becoming the person that Christ wants me to be, then the invitation to extend outside of my comfort zone then is seen as an invitation to mature. That's one piece. Again, it is causing individuals to know that there are certain aspects of God that you will not learn in isolation.
And that means not just individual isolation, that means cultural isolation. Right? But there are some aspects of God that we will not know or appreciate in isolation.
It is only in association, it is only in coming together that we can see this marvelous picture of God together. The grand Aha. Another image for that is this masterpiece. Right? As you say, this mosaic. Right. You don't get that without. Leaning into. The discomfort of extending yourself to another.
Travis Michael Fleming:If, as Bishop Claude Alexander says, maturity requires stepping beyond our comfort zones, then what does that maturity look like in the life of the church? Dr. Allen Yeh takes us deeper, showing us that this isn't just about interpersonal growth. It's not a fad. It's about living out a core biblical truth.
The beauty and diversity of the body of Christ isn't optional in God's economy. It's actually central. And when we neglect that, we risk missing not only our neighbor, but even the heart of the gospel itself.
Allen Yeh:Race, class, age, and gender are not only found in Ephesians, but also in Colossians and Galatians. So Paul actually talks about these categories in three different epistles. So you got to be like, okay, sit up and pay attention, right?
Because he keeps on repeating, it's not just one time. The other thing is that diversity is part of the beauty of the body of God. I often tell people that this is the greatest apologetic.
Sorry, one of the greatest apologetics for Christianity, the fact that we are the most diverse and geographically widespread religion on Earth. This is why polycentrism is important.
Because unlike most other religions, which have holy city, Mecca, Varanasi, Salt Lake City, what have you, we don't. There is no center to Christianity, no geographic center, no ethnic majority. All right?
We are of every country, nationality, ethnicity, continents till spread.
So the reason why this is such a great apologetic, because if there really is a global God, don't you think he would be worshiped by every people on Earth rather than by just one ethnic group or one geographic area on Earth? So most other religions are just one ethnic group or one geographic geographical area on Earth. That's the argument for race.
And Also in Revelation 7, 9, every tribe, tongue, nation is worshiping around the throne. And so when you get to heaven, actually we're still going to retain our ethnicity, our nationality, our language, our culture.
Yeah, because that glorifies God. When all this diversity is around the throne but also the reconciliation of age, gender and social class.
I often tell people this is the difference between a church and a parachurch. A parachurch targets one demographic. So you have Campus Crusade, which targets university students.
You have Jews for Jesus, which targets Jews, whatever, the omf, which targets China. All of these parachurch organizations aim for a particular demographic. But when you have the church, it should cover all.
You know, I, I used to talk to college students who are like part of crew or ivy, and they're like, oh, I don't need to go to church because this is like my church, right? I'm like, why? They're like, well, because, you know, we have worship, we have prayer, we have evangelism, we have fellowship.
Like, you know, we have a sermon. So it's church, right?
My answer to them is church is not comprised of exclusively 18 to 21 year olds who are middle to upper middle class, who have an IQ of over 120, who leave after four years. That's not church.
Church is much more diverse where older and younger generations come together, different races come together, different social classes, men and women. And so we need to have this beautiful diversity in the body. And okay, that's the encouragement. Now I'm going to put the fear.
Okay, so the parable of the unmerciful servant. Jesus says, okay, remember, he's like, the master forgave the servant his debt.
And then the servant goes and refuses to forgive the debt of another servant. So the master hears about this and goes to the first servant and says, you wicked servant, right?
Like, you clearly don't understand what I did for you. And he throws the guy in jail, weeping and gnashing of teeth, right? So I think this is instructive for us. The love of God.
This is the master of the first servant. This is us, right? He's like, I have loved you with an unconditional redeeming love that knows no bounds.
Now go and love your neighbor who's different from you, the neighbor as Jesus defined it in the parable of the good Samaritan. To the Jew, the Samaritan was like the dirty one, the other, the person with the wrong ethnicity, the wrong religion, the wrong everything, right?
And Jesus says to the Jew, yeah, that's your neighbor. That's the person you gotta love.
So, you know, if you put this into modern day, you would say the parable of the, you know, if you're talking to a Korean, it would be like the parable of the good Japanese. We're talking to Tutsi in Rwanda. It would be the parable of the good Hutu talking to a Jew in World War II.
The Parable of the good Nazi talking to American. It would be a parable of the good Al Qaeda. Okay? So feel the force of that, right? That is what Jesus wants us to do.
So going back to the parable of the unmerciful servant, God says, I have loved you and redeemed you and forgiven you.
Now you go reconcile with your neighbor who's different from you, different social class, different age, different ethnicity, different gender, different everything. And we're like, we can't do it then what's the lesson? God's like, I.
I'm not going to do it for you then because you clearly don't understand what I just did for you. It's like, whoa, right? Like that is, is forceful. We even pray this in the Lord's Prayer.
I'm like, if you've ever prayed the Lord's Prayer, forgive us our trespasses as we have forgiven those who trespass against us. Or depending on your translation, forgive us our sins as we have forgiven those who have sinned against us.
The condition is as we have forgiven others. God do that to me. It's the reverse golden rule kind of right.
It's like, as we have forgiven us, so I have to stop and think, how have I forgiven others? How have I treated others? How have I loved others? Because whatever measure I've used, that's the measure God's going to use for me.
Travis Michael Fleming:Allen Yeh has painted a compelling picture of the global multi ethnic body of Christ. A mosaic of grace that reflects the very heart of God. But this kind of reconciled diversity doesn't just happen, it must be formed.
And if we look back to the early church, we see how deeply they understood that catechesis wasn't just merely about transferring knowledge, it was about shaping a way of life. They didn't just tell new believers what to believe, they showed them how to live.
Stephen Presley reminds us that the early church took different approaches depending on where people were starting. Someone like the Ethiopian eunuch was already immersed in scripture and he could move quickly to belief in baptism.
But for the Gentiles on Mars Hill, Paul had to begin with the basics. Who is God? What kind of world are we living in? What does it mean to be human? That was catechesis. Not just doctrine, but direction.
Michel Hendricks puts it, telling someone to love their enemy without showing them is like asking a nine year old to fix a carburetor. They may nod in agreement, but they don't know what it looks like the early church knew this formation meant modeling, imitation, habituation.
It was embodied and relational. That's exactly what Stephen Presley is calling us back to a church where catechesis once again becomes the foundation for cultural engagement.
Not by retreating from the world, but by forming people who can live distinctly in it. People shaped in community, led by servant hearted pastors and trained not just to know the truth, but to live it together.
Stephen O. Presley:This we have got to form people. Catechesis is cultural engagement. We often think everything is external.
But when you look at the early church, they put such an emphasis on catechesis. I'll give you one example and I think I only mentioned this sort of in passing in the book.
But early church they draw a distinction between the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8 and Paul on Mars Hill in Acts 17. What is the Ethiopian Dunic? He is reading Isaiah 53 and he looks at Philip and says, you know, what do I need to do? Like what do I need to do?
And Philip says, you know, and gives him the gospel. If you go to Paul, Paul's like beginning, how many gods are there? Like.
We've got to start at the beginning. I can't just say Jesus has a wonderful plan for your life. I mean there's like a whole catechesis, a whole discipleship.
And actually Irenaeus, in one of his works, he mentions the challenge Paul has among the Gentiles who weren't already formed. And I see the same thing today. I mean you can talk about, you can read some of those works, the Great Detourching or some of these works.
We're quickly moving into a culture in which the very basics of Christian orthodoxy or formation are not even known or assumed. And suddenly catechesis becomes a gateway into cultural engagement.
Travis Michael Fleming:What Presley is pointing to is a deep need for leaders who understand that forming a people isn't just about content, it's about creating environments that cultivate true embodied transformation.
This requires pastors who see their role not as platform builders but as servants who create spaces where people can gather, learn and, and practice hospitality. It's not just about showing up to church.
It's about creating a culture where we can serve one another and truly become the kind of people that models the love and grace of Christ. And this leadership doesn't just happen by accident, it requires intentionality.
It's about moving beyond the surface level and helping our churches engage in the hard work of growing together in godliness. And this is where more than ever we need godly pastors leading the charge.
Cultivating a culture of servant leadership that's reflected in every part of the life of the church.
Stephen O. Presley:Growing together in godliness and, you know, getting off our phones and getting, getting to church together and pastoral staff that will lead people in hospitality, that will create leaders. I can't remember if I mentioned this book. I wrote a piece.
Christian leaders that are using their positions not as platforms but as servants, as creating environments where people are gathered together in learning hospitality.
I think we need godly leaders, pastors that are kind of leading the charge and creating cultures within our churches and cultures within institutions where servant and hospitality are the orientations not at the expense of godliness and of Christian orthodoxy and Christian morality, but doing so in ways that are Christlike and servant hearted. I mean, I think creating those kinds of cultures in our churches is imperative.
Travis Michael Fleming:It is imperative. I mean, Presley's call to cultivate a culture of hospitality and servant leadership isn't just about creating spaces for people to gather.
It's about fostering real relationships that reflect the love of Christ in tangible ways. This is where the challenge in our modern world gets even more pressing.
It's easy for churches to get caught up in the mechanics, the strategies and the technology, but the heart of Christian community is in the face to face encounter, where we actually see one another for who we are and engage on a deeper level. Alan Noble points this out.
In our modern world, these true encounters are increasingly rare because we're on our phones all the time, we're on screens all the time. Instead, we often find ourselves interacting with shadows of people, their superficial engagements that lack real vulnerability.
It's here that the church has the opportunity, even the responsibility, to push back against the culture, embracing the hard work of authentic embodied community.
O. Alan Noble:But I think we could do just the hard work of being in the church community and some of the things that you just mentioned.
I mean, if we can just stop doing so much of the technique in the church and focus so much on the gospel and being embodied, that will do so much good. You used the word encounter. This is something that Ellul talks a lot about in some other works.
Presence in the modern world, being able to actually encounter our neighbor.
He argues that in the modern world that's something that we just fail to do, that we don't actually encounter each other face to face, that we encounter kind of a shadow or we encounter artifacts of culture.
I think a lot about, you know, even in small groups or life groups or whatever you want to call them, how easy it is to meet together and have really just a Bunch of small talk so that, no, I don't want to use the word authenticity, but there's just. There's just no vulnerability.
Travis Michael Fleming:Noble's reflection on the absence of true encounter in modern Christian community speaks to a broader cultural issue. There is a disconnect that has deep roots in Western individualism. You feel it, I feel it.
It's not enough to simply gather in a room for a few songs or prayers. You've done that, I've done that. But there's not been real transformation.
As NT Wright points out, the impact of enlightenment thought has deeply influenced how you and I both view faith, often reducing it to a personal, isolated experience rather than recognizing the rich corporate identity that scripture envisions for the church.
And it wasn't until our church became diverse because we started reaching out to our immediate community that was diverse, that we started to see this. Our vision of God got blown out of the water.
And Wright emphasizes that we're diminished when we don't see ourselves as part of this larger unified body.
This is actually a critical piece of the challenge of embodying the gospel in our communities today, recognizing that we are the I am because we are, as African wisdom beautifully puts it, and not just isolated individuals.
N.T. Wright:To be sure, it's partly the whole enlightenment critique which has eaten into the very fabric of many people's awareness, so that even if they still sometimes want to go to church and sing Christmas carols, say, because that reminds them of when they were kids, nostalgia, it doesn't actually go too deep. It's still there, it's still a resource, but it often doesn't go too deep. But I think you're absolutely right.
And this is where this is the danger of certain kinds of Western individualism that we want to say.
The gospel is for you, that, you know, you can't think you're a Christian just because your great aunt was a Christian or whatever, it's got to be you. Personally, I've heard people, preachers say God has no grandchildren.
You know, you, you need, you need to know God as your father, not just your parents father or whatever. And there is of course, great truth in that. Make for yourself, make your own the faith into which you were born, born or baptized or whatever it is.
However, that individualism then does produce, and I've seen this in some would be evangelical contexts, the idea of church, which is just a sort of happy accident, that this person's a Christian, that person's a Christian, that person's a Christian.
So sometimes they all like to be in the same room, saying their prayers or singing a hymn together because it's kind of fun, rather than seeing the witness of a community.
Because, you know, in the book of Revelation, the great scene is a great multitude that no one can number of all nations and kingdoms and tribes and tongues. Unless there are moments when we're doing that, we're not actually being our true selves. We are diminished.
And different cultures, non Western cultures have often got this right. You know, the African slogan, I am because we are, and so on.
And that can be overdone and that can produce passive Christians who just slide along and hope it's all right. But we've got to recapture that sense of corporate identity.
Travis Michael Fleming:NT Wright's reflection on the importance of a corporate identity in the church highlights the need for a shift away from the Western individualism that dominates our view of faith.
As he challenges us to recapture a sense of community rooted in our collective identity as the people of God, we begin to see that the mission of the church isn't just about personal salvation, but about embodying the new humanity that God is creating in the world. This vision of the church as a community with a mission is exactly where Michael Gohen picks up the conversation.
He delves deeper into the missional nature of the church, reminding us that God's redemptive plan unfolds through his people, an identity that stretches beyond cultural boundaries and invites us into a new way of being human, one that stands as a witness to the world question.
Michael Goheen:The problem with the word mission is it's not a biblical word, it's a theological word. And theological words are like suitcases.
You pack a bunch of stuff into it and then with that little one suitcase, you're able to communicate a lot quickly. And if you want to know what's in that suitcase, you got to unpack it.
And the suitcase, mission suitcase that's been used for many years has been the idea of going from home base to the mission field. It was first used in the 16th century, but the word mission is a theological word. Like Trinity, like Providence.
They're not in the Bible, but they're trying to pack biblical stuff into it. So one word. And so when you start unpacking it and you start saying, okay, mission is about cross cultural missions.
In the colonial paradigm, you say, well, that's marginal if it's even faithful anymore in light of the colonial paradigm. But I started realizing that it was very different suitcase for Newbegin and for many others.
So I start with a missionary encounter with culture, a church being faithful not Being syncretistically absorbed. So my next step back is, well, what's the church anyway? And that's what Newbegin was talking about, a missional church.
And what he meant by that, forget what maybe others do. What he meant by that is that the whole biblical story has a missional direction. Meaning by that the Bible moves from one man to all the nations.
It moves from Abraham to all the nations in the book of Revelation.
And that missional direction of moving from one man through one nation, through the one man, Jesus, through the Jewish, the church in Jerusalem, out to the nations and using the community, God uses that community, Israel, then the church, to accomplish his purposes, to bring the good news to the nations, that that is a missional direction.
And the people of God have a missional vocation or identity, meaning that they have a role to play in this story, that God is restoring the blessing of creation in them, but not only in them, through them to the world. And so this missional identity is not simply doing evangelism or going overseas.
It's about being the true humanity that God intended human beings to be for the sake of the world. So basically, God creates Adam, Adam thwarts God's purpose for the creation.
God chooses Abraham, and he's going to form a new humanity out of the old humanity to be what Adamic humanity failed to be. And he begins to create this new humanity that will be what Adamic humanity failed to be. And that is going to be the people of God through the story.
And there to be that new humanity as God works in them, but not just for their own sake, but so that they can be a light to the nations, so that their lives can be attractive before the nations.
Deuteronomy 4 speaks, Where Moses speaks to Israel, says, now you're going into the land, and if you live out this Torah, this law that shapes you in a way of love and justice and wisdom before the nations, they will ask the question, who is your God? Where is this law? And they'll be attracted to me as the living God. That's what Mishnah is all about.
But the problem with today, and I won't continue the story, is that now that people are not an ethnic people defined by political community. They're now communities in every idolatrous nation of the world, whether that be India, whether that be the United States, Canada, Britain, Korea.
And now they're called to be what Israel failed to be, the new humanity in every part of the world. And so their vocation is to be that new humanity said this Is God's purpose for. For humanity in the midst of the world?
This is a new humanity that one day will inherit and populate the new Earth. Don't you want to join us and become part of this new humanity?
Only to the degree we're offering a new way of being human and inviting people into that, not allowing the idolatry of our culture to dehumanize us. Only to that degree are we being faithful.
So I realized that his whole concern for encountering the idols of culture was bound up with his view of a missionary church, a missional church, being in their identity of being the new humanity, living into the story and calling others into it. So that's what that language would try to convey.
Travis Michael Fleming:What if the church wasn't just a place we go, but the community through which God reclaims his world?
What if, as Irwyn Ince Jr reminds us, the beauty of the Gospel is seen most clearly in a reconciled, united people, a people not defined by sameness, but by shared allegiance to Jesus. What if, as Claude Alexander urges, we stop playing defense and start advancing the kingdom with the confidence that the Spirit is still at work?
Stephen Presley called us to get off our phones and get back to church to rediscover the sacred work of hospitality of leaders who create, not consume. Alan Noble warned us not to lose the power of presence, reminding us that real encounter can't happen through technique alone. And N.T. Wright took us deep into the danger of hyper individualism and showed us that the church is not a happy accident. It's God's plan to form a new humanity in Christ.
Michael Gohen helped us to see that this new humanity is not just a community that gathers, but one sent, bearing witness through love, justice and faithfulness in every culture. The church doesn't just have a mission, it is the mission.
Eugene Peterson once reflected on the angels surrounding God's throne in Isaiah 6, each crying out to the others, holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty. He noted something profound.
The angels aren't speaking directly to God, but to one another, each bearing witness to the holiness of God in the presence of others. It's a picture of worship as something communal, not individual.
In the same way, we need the church around the world and across the street to see more of God. We need the voices and perspectives that are different from our own, because there are things about God we simply cannot see without them there.
C.S. Lewis experienced this deeply with the inclination when their friend Charles William died. Lewis thought that he'd get more of Tolkien's brilliance in their gatherings. But to his surprise, he actually got less.
You see, there was something in Charles William that brought out a side of Tolkien that no one else could. Lewis realized we don't just lose one friend, we lose the part of others that only that friend could bring out. And in the church, it's no different.
We need one another to see more of God. No single tradition, culture, or person can show him in full. But together, we are being built into a temple in which God dwells by his spirit.
That's why we're launching the Blueprint Cohort. It's not a class to complete.
It's a community to grow, with a gathering of leaders, pastors and believers who want to root their lives and ministries in God's kingdom story, who want to resist the tides of cultural conformity and recover the calling to be the new humanity together. So if you're tired of gimmicks, you're weary of isolation, and you're hungry to see the church be the church again. Join us.
And don't miss next week as we conclude our Blueprint series. We've explored the Gospel, the Great Commission, the Great Commandment, and the great community.
But next week we'll bring it all together with a vision for the church in the world today. Today, what does it mean to be God's people for the sake of the world?
Right now, in your neighborhood, in your workplace, in your church, we'll cast a vision, offer practical steps, and give you a glimpse of what's next here on those who Serve the Lord. So until then, stay watered, my friends, and let the roots go deep.
Thank you for joining us on today's episode of those who Serve the Lord, a podcast of Apollo's Water, the Center for Discipleship and Cultural Apologetics. We trust that what you've heard has inspired and encouraged you in your walk of faith. Remember, serving the Lord isn't just about what we do.
It's about who we are becoming in Him. Whether in the small moments or the grand gestures, each step of service brings us closer to him, his heart.
If you found today's discussion meaningful, we invite you to share it with others who might be encouraged. And don't forget to subscribe and leave a review. It helps spread the message to those who need to hear it most.
Until next time, may you continue to serve the Lord with joy, humility, and a heart full of his love. God bless you. This is Travis Michael Fleming signing off. Stay watered, everybody.