#30 | What God Is Doing In The World, Pt. 1 | Todd M. Johnson

It's watering time, everybody.

It is time for Apollos Watered, a podcast to saturate your faith with the things of God so that you might saturate your world with the good news of Jesus Christ.

My name is Travis Michael Fleming and I am your host.

And today we have a deep conversation.

A deep conversation where we go beyond the headlines, we go beyond the sound bites, and we like to go down deep where not too many people like to go.

We don't like to stay on the surface.

We need to think deeply, especially as Christians.

Not that we all have to be theologians or scholars or academics, but we do need to think deeply about our faith and what it means to be a Christian in our world today.

And my conversation partner is my friend Todd Johnson.

Now let me tell you a little bit about Todd.

Todd M.

Johnson is Paul E.

And Eva B.

Thoms Distinguished professor of Global Christianity and Co Director of the center for the Study of Global Christianity at Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary.

My Alma material.

He is the Visiting Research Fellow at Boston University's Institute for Culture, Religion and World affairs, leading a research project on international religious demography.

He is co editor of the Atlas of Global Christianity and co author of the World Christian Encyclopedia and World Christian Trends.

He is editor of the World Christian Database and co editor of the World Religion Database.

He's married to Tricia and has three daughters.

Now let me put this in layman's terms.

Basically he knows what God is doing around the world.

He is the guy who knows who everybody is and what everybody is doing.

He is the guy that your guy or girl who writes is reading.

He is the Google of global Christianity, the king of the stats.

And in this conversation that I have with Todd, we talk about a lot of what God is doing around the world.

We'll be talking about different countries, how they express their faith.

We'll be talking about what God is doing in parts of Asia and Africa as well as the United States.

As we become much more global and multi ethnic as well as multicultural, how do we express our faith in the world as we changing?

What lessons can we learn and apply in our everyday lives from our brothers and sisters around the world?

Now this will be the first part of a two part series because Todd and I really went down deep.

Todd knows what is going on and he is very passionate about who God is and what he is doing in the world.

So I would encourage you to listen in and try to think through what God might be trying to show you so that you might saturate your world with the Good news of Jesus Christ.

Happy listening.

I want to welcome you to Apollos Watered.

Welcome.

Thanks so much.

I'm really happy to be with you today.

And it's been a while since I've seen you, but always enjoyed talking with you.

So, for those that don't know, Todd was my professor and I had the privilege of taking some independent study classes with him.

And I was drinking from a fire hose because this is the man who knows what is going on around the world.

I like to call you the Google of global Christianity.

You are a personalized Google.

And as I said before reading your biography, it sounds like you live in an academic institution.

I know you don't.

I know you are from Minnesota.

You grew up as a Lutheran, but here's my question for you before we really get into our stuff today, because you are a Lutheran from Minnesota.

Do you eat lutefisk?

Yes.

Actually, it was one of the things in my life that probably came closest to stopping my engagement with my wife because I've always grown up with it.

And.

And when I brought her home for New Year's, or, excuse me, Christmas Eve, that's when we have it, Christmas Eve.

She was shocked to see this gelatinous mess on a plate with white rice.

And it was just so special in our family.

But once she got through that, I knew it was gonna be good.

And we've been married almost 38 years, so she doesn't allow me to fly it in on Christmas Eve.

That's the one thing that we can't do anymore.

So.

So describe to our listeners what, for those that don't come from a Nordic background, what is lutefisk?

Well, it's.

It's actually cod that's been soaked in lye in order to preserve it.

And it does give it rather a gelatinous, clear look.

But when it's done properly, it's, you know, it's absolutely delicious.

So it.

Probably a lot of people have had it when it's just.

Just like mush, and you really have to wonder why you would eat it.

And.

But it's a.

It's a.

It's a delicacy where I'm from.

Nice.

So.

And I think that probably prepared her for the trip that you guys have had.

I mean, around the world, to engage so many different cultures.

You have traveled all over, around the world, and I look forward to hearing about that as well as what God has done through you and all of the different things that are going on around the world.

But before we get to that, we have A little thing here we do called fast five.

And these are five things about you.

I'm going to ask you a question.

It may be a this or that or maybe just a short answer, but five things.

Are you ready?

Yes.

Okay, here we go.

This is just an easy one.

And we're going to get you warmed up here.

What is your favorite non academic hobby?

Probably cross country skiing.

Cross country skiing?

Really?

Did you grow up doing that in Minnesota?

In Minnesota.

But in Massachusetts where I live, we get a lot of snow, you know, certain years.

And I live next to a couple of state parks.

I go out at six in the morning by myself and ski on the trails.

Wow.

I've never done that before.

Is it, I mean, what do you like about it?

Well, it's kind of a Scandinavian thing to do.

I mean, if I could eat lutefisk before I went, it'd be probably even better.

But it's just something you're out by yourself and you're just going nicely on these trails and it's a low impact kind of thing.

You know, a lot of people have these machines like ski machine, Nordic ski machines or rowing machines, things where you, you know, you have this kind of same exercise that you do.

But it's absolutely refreshing and it's usually bright and sunny and cold and kind of reminds me of growing up, I suppose too.

So my wife is from South Florida.

That would not be relaxing for her in any which way but because here's, here's the next one.

Now you've traveled around the world.

I don't even know how many countries you've been to, but the craziest food or ethnic dish that you have ever eaten.

Yeah, there's a, there's a dish in Korea and it's absolutely delicious, even though it's a little strange.

And it's, it's, it's octopus that, where the tentacles are still kind of moving.

So it's moving on the plate while you have it.

It's a delicacy there.

And I had it a couple of years ago there and I thought, you know, this is really delicious.

And that sort of ingratiated me to my host.

But it is a very odd thing to eat something that's still moving.

Is it moving in your mouth when you take a bite?

Yeah, it is.

It's actually not still alive, I guess it's some, you know, it's sort of a post mortem thing that happens to octopi when they meet their maker, I guess.

I'm not sure.

Okay.

Wow.

I'm just trying picture that.

And I don't even know if I can.

But it's actually, it's oddly enough, as what you described.

I think it would be a delicacy, something that I would enjoy trying just to try it.

Because I'm amazed at the different things in every cultures, including my own, that we eat that other people go, wow, I can't believe you actually eat that from other cultures.

But I love that because food just bonds people together.

But here's your next question.

What is your scariest or strangest foreign travel experience?

Yeah, that's a good question.

I mean, I've.

And, you know, be careful and make sure you get off here.

So I remember it got later and later and later, and finally I found somebody who spoke English.

I had gone to the entire end of the line, about as far away as you could get from where I was supposed to be.

And fortunately somebody came up to me and, you know, helped me get back.

But I was very late to that meeting.

And I remember thinking, I'm, you know, I'm far away from home.

I have no idea.

You know, when you can't read or you can't do anything, it is pretty scary.

So that's, that's one thing you don't want to be is lost in a country where you have, you know, you don't have many resources.

But.

But I was rescued.

Well, that's good.

That, that would be terrifying.

But it seems like God got you through that.

Now let's try to get a little bit more practical.

I know you love to read, but when you're not reading, what TV show do you and your wife watch together?

Yeah, well, we've.

We enjoy a lot of historical type documentaries and that sort of thing, but we also enjoy Madam Secretary, which we feel is just a fun show to watch.

And the father, the husband of the Secretary of State, is a theologian, so it's kind of fun.

And he brings in theological truths once in a while.

And it's, you know, in the family side of it, we have three daughters, so, you know, we feel a bond with this couple who are trying to raise their children.

Many, many, you know, similar things going on in our life.

So we've enjoyed it very much.

My wife, when she hears this, is going to freak out because that's the show that we like to watch together.

Oh, great, great.

Yeah, it's.

And we, we feel a bond.

I'm like, it's a theologian.

I love that.

But, yeah.

Okay, so here's about this, because you are, you are a guy and many, many don't know you of my listening audience or may not know you, but I know you love to read.

You love to go to bookstores and get books all over the world.

And I'm assuming because you are so.

I mean, you just love to read so much.

And I don't know if this is the same with you, but it is for me that when I get home, there are certain rules my wife has that basically not, not that I'm not allowed to talk about, but I knew some spouses have that.

Are there any rules that your wife has what you are not allowed to talk about at home?

Yeah, that's a good question.

And maybe some of it is I've learned over the years not to talk about them, so I've forgotten what they are.

We, you know, my wife grew up as a, as a missionary kid in Guatemala, and she's interested in virtually everything that I'm finding out.

So we're not, you know, my work is not really separate from what her interests are.

I said, but you know what, the side that I know what, what it is, it's, of course I'm studying the whole world, but I'm doing it from the standpoint of mathematics.

And that's an area that she just does not want to hear.

But I'm not going to talk about the latest thing from, you know, that I'm working on and the algebra associated with it.

That's not going to work for us as a couple.

So, so it must be math or statistics maybe is a better way to put it, you know, that we're an area we're not going to talk about.

I'm not going to show her the latest Excel spreadsheet that I'm working on, you know, although she'll be interested in the results when they come out.

That's, that's the difference there.

It's just the, the mechanics of it aren't that interesting to her, but the results are.

She likes to hear the results.

I think I'm with her in that regard.

Yeah.

Now, here's the last question.

And this is, this is one, just a little general one, but if you.

Were a breakfast food, what breakfast food.

Would you be and why?

Yeah, I think.

Well, I don't know if I'd want to be this, but I, I really enjoy granola, so I'M not even sure why it's crunchy, you know, it's, it's supposed to be kind of healthy.

So I think, I think it's granola.

I mean, I guess that makes me a child of the seventies too, doesn't it?

So a little bit, yeah.

Yeah.

And maybe that's it because, you know, when I was only 20, I moved to California and started eating granola.

I suppose so.

And I've had it ever since.

And my wife, I met my wife in California.

I'm very fond of fruits and nuts and granola as a result of that move to California.

Maybe I'll blame it on California, which I love very much.

So that's probably it.

So let's hear, speaking of moving to.

California, let's hear a bit of your story.

So you grew up in Minnesota and you moved to California.

And so just tell us about that journey and your journey to where you are now.

I mean, of course, the abbreviated version, but we want to hear just how God has touched your life and used you because you're in a very, very unique field when you're talking about global Christianity.

But how did God just, I mean, what's your story?

Let's hear your story.

Yeah, I, yeah, the abbreviated version is that I, I felt like I wanted to, you know, to do something to, to spread the gospel around the world.

I'd actually heard about them when I was at Montana State University for a year.

And there was actually a Ywam base there.

And I met Bible smugglers like Brother Andrew and people like that at that time.

And I had taken Russian in high school, so I was kind of interested in, you know, crossing the Iron Curtain and that sort of a thing.

But instead I joined youth with the mission.

I ended up in Thailand at the height, or yes, at the height of the refugee crisis as, as a lot of Cambodians had spilled over into the border in Thailand.

And, and that was really a, a life changing experience for me because I was meeting people in, in one of the worst situations of the 20th century.

But they were also people who were, who were deeply impacted by the gospel.

And I think that seeing, seeing the power of the gospel in the lives of people who had lost, you know, siblings and mothers and fathers and, and so on, and, and then following them once I left Thailand, I followed many of them as they resettled in the West.

I worked in Tacoma for a while and helped refugees resettle.

So that could have been really the trajectory of my whole life is to be involved in development work or relief and development and then maybe in refugee resettlement.

But I ended back up in California and that's where I met my future father in law and his and mother in law who had started the US center for World Mission in Pasadena, Ralph and Roberta Winter.

And they convinced me that the best use of my time was really to focus on people who had never heard the gospel.

And again, I had met people like that.

I knew people personally whose lives were transformed and they really got me going on the academic side because I loved math and statistics when I was younger and then ended up really giving my whole life to studying and researching what's going on around the world.

And that's what you've done so many.

Some are familiar with you.

I know you have a worldwide audience and I like to, as I said, in many ways you're the Google of global Christianity, Christianity or the king of stats.

And so we're around the world.

As you're looking at statistics, you're seeing things that are changing and what God's doing around the world.

Where around the world should we be looking?

I mean, what do the stats say about what we see God doing around the world right now?

I mean, where is he working?

And I know the short answer is everywhere, but where do we see the church really growing right now?

Yeah, usually I think of three places right away and they're all different.

And it's a Hindu country, largely Hindu, although there's a Buddhist minority there.

And things just started to happen.

You know, pastors, Christian pastors were in prison at the time.

It was really a tough, tough time.

But since the 90s, Christianity has really grown there.

And so it's now a very large community.

And I mean, you know, it's a minority, but it's a large minority.

And it's a pretty exciting thing to see how, how former Hindus, they would almost all be formal former Hindus have become Christians and you know, and now are active all around the world.

So that's a, that's a group or that's a country that I think comes to mind right away.

Another one is Cambodia, which I actually just mentioned another situation where Christianity was pretty small and now has grown and there's, you know, lots of Christians and there are people who are involved in leadership around the world.

Of course, there's a Cambodian diaspora because of the genocide.

So Cambodian Christians can be found really virtually anywhere in the world, including a large number in the United States, both here in Massachusetts and California in particular.

And then the third country is a different story, and that would be Albania, which is the, what they call the resurrection of the Church.

That's a phrase that's common there because, you know, 100 years ago there was a divide in the country religiously between Muslims and Christians.

The Christians were Orthodox Christians, Christians.

People of religion in our country.

We're the first totally atheistic country in the world.

And now we see a country that Christianity has rebounded.

The Orthodox Church made it through a lot of stories of courage and under persecution all those years.

And there's a Protestant and Catholic presence there as well.

And then, of course, the Muslim community is also bounded back.

So it's probably one of the most remarkable stories of, of how Christianity has come back after being nearly wiped out.

So those are three countries that come to mind of many, but they're ones that are quite remarkable.

So looking at that, and I'm not surprised that God is working.

But those are three that I hadn't heard about recently.

But of course you would know before I think anyone else would, of what's going on.

What, what can the Church learn from one another around the world?

And I, I look at what can we in the west learn from what's going on in the East?

And what does the, what is the best thing that the east can glean from the West?

Because we do need one another in, in a very reciprocal relationship.

But of course, every form of Christianity needs to take root in its own culture, and we need.

But I think I find myself learning from those in the east because I think many of in the west isn't.

I don't know.

I don't know what the proper term is.

But I find myself drawing encouragement because when I travel to different countries and I get asked to speak, I always ask them, what do you want me to do?

Because I don't want to bring in all of my Westernness to this form and I can't remove myself completely from it.

But I often ask them because I tell them, I'm a student of your culture.

I don't know you.

I don't know what you need.

I Know, I have my own blind spots.

But what do you believe that the best that I have to offer and how I can serve you, and then I try to do the vice versa.

I say, well, what can I learn from them that my culture has lost or needs to draw from?

I mean, what are the lessons that you see that we can learn from one another, just within the global church?

Yeah, no, it's a great question.

It's actually a very important question.

It's good to think in terms of a dialogue, not a monologue either way.

Right.

I mean, and that's actually part of the problem is we don't really have that dialogue that we need to have.

Oftentimes, I think there's one overarching thing that we can learn from what we call the global south in our work.

So the global north is Europe and North America.

Global south is Africa, Asia, Latin America, and Oceania.

And one fundamental thing is that Western society is pretty heavily centered on the individual.

And of course, you know, there's some good things about that in our history.

But with Christianity, it's really not a strength, generally speaking, because we're a.

We're a community of faith where, you know, community is just so central to Christianity.

And I think that's the.

You know, that's really one of the most important things.

I'll give you an example.

I was with a World Christianity scholar, actually.

She was here in our home, and she was telling us about some struggles her brother was having in his marriage back in Kenya.

She was from Kenya.

And after a while, we said, well, you know, we hope, you know, that your brother and his wife are getting counseling.

And she said, oh, no.

Oh, no, we don't do that.

And we said, well, then, you know, how are you going to see them?

You know, their marriage healed?

And he said, well, the way we do it is the pastor brings together five or six couples in the church at various points in their marriage and treats them together.

And together they work through these issues.

You never just meet somebody by themselves because the only way to grow is through community.

And I thought, boy, that is really insightful, because a lot of marriages do fail because there's really not much accountability or, you know, support to a marriage.

And traditionally, in most of the world, you've got really two families involved, you know, and then a bunch of peers as well.

But there's a lot of people involved in most marriages, and that makes a little bit harder for them to come apart, you know, so.

So I thought, well, there's.

There's a clear example of how community, you know, is a higher value in the global south and can really be helpful for Christian faith.

That's an awesome insight because I'm a big contender and I think I learned this from you, is that we do need to be in dialogue.

We do need to learn because we don't have all the answers.

And in fact, I think as our culture goes on and we see what God's doing around the world, I think that many of the, the, the church, many of the churches in the west have to re examine themselves because we don't have all the answers.

And we're seeing the fault lines.

We're seeing the, the rapid individualism that's become an idol in itself.

And we do need to hear from our brothers and sisters around the world, and yet we don't remove all of it.

There are good things that we do have to offer, I think, but we don't have all of those answers.

What are, what are some of the other things though, that we can learn from one another?

Because as I look at our world today, I see globalization changing things rapidly.

I see us engaging with people from different parts of the world, all over the world, whether it's in Toronto, whether it's in a small town in the Quad cities of Illinois, people are engaging from different cultures around the world.

Or you're going to Kuala Lumpur.

I mean, the world is meeting the world and how do we really reformulate our knowledge?

And, or what's the challenge for us going forward as we're dealing with these issues?

Because I think many people are saying, how do I live my faith in this changing world?

Because for many of them, I think they've had a formulation of Christianity in the West.

I'm referring to where they're now encountering the world and it's causing them to reassess.

And I think that's a good thing.

I mean, what, what are some of the challenges that we face as we're trying to be this church in a, in a really global, fast paced, globalized world?

Yeah, no, that's a, that's another great question.

And I think the, I think one area which, which I've been studying and, and seeing, you know, the, the, the advantage of here is the way in which churches in the global south have had more contact with people in other religions.

Because now, you know, in the United States and Canada and in Europe, we're having increasing contact with people in other religions.

And part of the problem for us is that our history or our more, you know, the last few hundred years, you know, has been a history of Christendom, where we have this geographic territory that's largely Christian thinking of Europe.

And then people in other religions live a long ways away.

And, you know, we don't really know much about them.

We don't know them.

And that's really not a good situation in which to become good at interacting with people in other religions.

So a couple years ago, I was in Singapore and I'm reading the newspaper in the morning, and there's a.

An article in there talking about how Singaporeans, 9 out of 10 Singaporeans are comfortable living and working with people in other ethnicities and other religions.

And Singapore is the most diverse country in the world because, you know, there's.

There's Buddha as far as religious diversity goes.

There's Buddhists, there's Muslims, there's Hindus, there's Christians and several others, but nobody is really a minority or a majority.

There's nobody over 30% of the population.

That's what makes it so diverse.

And I thought to myself, you know, I'd just been reading similar polls in the United States and some places in Europe which maybe one or two out of ten people would be comfortable living and working with people in other cultures.

And then it struck me that there in Singapore, they're reading books, Christian books, about how to get along with people in other religions that are written by Americans.

And I thought, well, why.

Why are Americans writing books when they.

When they don't really have the intuitive sense of what it's like to live in this diversity and how you get along?

So my hope is that we can, you know, that, that Christians in Singapore will maybe again lead us and how we can get along better with people in other religions, which has to be one of the most important things, you know, coming up in, in.

In the west as well, not just.

Not just in the global South.

So I think that's an area, you know, where we can, we can learn.

And then if we, if we.

We really should go in the other direction too.

What, what can the west teach other people?

And what comes to my mind, among many things, because, you know, there's a lot of good things about Christianity in the Western world.

One that, that I'm just so impressed with is bioethics and, and the interaction between faith and science in, you know, in the Western world.

You think of all the people that have worked so hard in this area, and it's gonna.

It's going to affect the whole world, you know, where we have.

Decisions are being made about, you know, genetic medicine and those Sort of things that's only going to continue.

And to have Christians who, who are very thoughtful about that has, is, you know, it's a pioneering, in a sense, in that way.

And, and we'd want to see the global church benefit from some of the work that's been done, I think, in faith and science in particular.

I find that so interesting because as we do look at the advance of science, we do see secularism beginning to grow and the challenges that are there.

We had as a special guest on Derek Webster, and he said he was in China and he was speaking and was going to talk a bit about post modernity or someone asked about what his thoughts were on post modernity and he thought, you're not ready for that yet.

And then there was a collective groan in the room.

Actually, he said that out loud.

And he said, how many of you want to hear about it?

And he said 90% of the room raised their hand because it seems like the world is in because of globalization.

We're encountering philosophies, trends, science, secularism, and we're all trying to figure this out together.

And I think in many ways finding out what God is doing around the world helps remove some of the nationalism that I'm seeing spring up not only here in the United States, but in different pockets around the world, because that seems to choke our understanding of faith and really who Christ is.

How do we continue to partner and have these type of dialogues?

I mean, for many of us, we're not able to travel right now, and we don't necessarily have those conversations, or at least we don't think we can, even though we find people from different backgrounds and cultures all around us.

How do we educate ourselves so that we, we can step out of our, our little bubbles, if you will.

Yeah, fortunately, I, I think that's, it's, it is much easier than it.

Than it would have been 40 or 50 years ago.

And that is that, you know, in most places in the Western world, there's a lot of people from many places all around the world who are, you know, nearby.

And let's say, I mean, they're, they're in, they're in churches, they're in communities, they're in universities.

And, and so there's, there is easier access to, to other cultures through people, through, you know, through immigrants, through international students, through lots of, lots of people who are visiting.

Well, I mean, you know, in the pre.

Covid period.

And they'll be back again, you know, in the future.

And, and so there's, I mean, When I.

When I first came to Boston 18 years ago, I think within a month of being here, I went to a meeting in.

In.

In the city, because I live, you know, out in.

On the north shore, you know, 30 minutes from Boston.

But I went down in the city and met with something they called the Multicultural Leaders Team of Christians.

And I was sitting between a guy from Bangladesh, who I actually still know 18 years later, and then another pastor, Cambodian pastor, that I met within just.

Just a short time of coming here.

And it was just so wonderful to be sitting around a table with Christians from all around the world talking about faith and what we're going to do to, you know, to help Boston.

And this developed.

And it was actually developing even at that time into something that has been called the Quiet Revival.

Because Boston, you know, was a strongly Catholic city which had a Protestant presence for a long time and, of course, even a longer Protestant history.

It was illegal to be a Catholic in this area in the very beginning.

But once you had Italians and the Irish come in, you know, then we were very much a Christian city 100 and some years ago because of that.

But then we become increasingly secular, and people, you know, are talking about, you know, how few Christians there are here.

But that's really kind of a Western white point of view, because there are lots of Christians here from Brazil and, and, you know, from all over the world that better represent what's happening in Christianity.

And.

And a lot of people didn't know about it.

So it was called the Quiet Revival.

So I think that's true in a lot of places.

Maybe that's one thing that especially white Christians should be kind of on the lookout for what's happening in a lot of the ethnic communities.

So I think you can personally have contact with people from the global Christian church and then have a dialogue.

And actually, it's probably good to listen for a while.

I know Daniel Hill, who's there in Chicago, wrote a book called White Awake, and he wanted to, you know, better interact with the African American community in Chicago.

But he had a lot of ideas for them and spent, I think, several months telling them what the best things that they could do and then finally learn to listen.

And that's really kind of a turning point in his life and in the book is that he actually listened to what they thought should happen.

And I think that's not a bad model as we think about all the people who have come from all over the world and, you know, and live here permanently in the United States.

I told you it was like drinking.

From a fire hose.

Todd has forgotten more stats than I can remember and it is so exciting to be able to dialogue with someone who has his fingers on the pulse of global Christianity.

I mean Christianity around the world.

There is no one on more of a cutting edge than him and that was just part one.

Part two is next week where we learn about how we can join God in what he is doing around the world.

So I would invite you back next week as we pick up our conversation again and explore that together.

I also want to let you know about an opportunity that we have coming up.

We will be meeting at Phantom Ranch Bible Camp in Mukwonago, Wisconsin where we will open the Word of God together and learn about how we might thrive in Babylon.

You know our world is fallen and over the past few decades we have seen a massive shift in how Christianity is being expressed in the world, especially in the West.

How do we live in that?

Moreover, how do we thrive in that?

How do we follow Jesus when our schools want to give us information that the Bible clearly speaks against?

How do we go to our workplaces when we are forced to adopt policies and languages that we do not believe?

How do we do that?

Well, those are just some of the questions that we will be exploring.

You can sign up on Phantom Ranch's website at phantomranch.org events and it will be right there.

Today's show was brought to you by our wonderful sponsor, Kathy Brothers of Keller Williams Innovate.

You know that if you are looking to buy or sell a home in the Chicagoland area, then she is the woman that you need to call.

She comes with years of experience and loves people.

She is a trustworthy woman and in our world today that means a lot.

And she cares about her clients.

She cares about your needs.

I know and I can testify to this because I am one of them.

She's my agent.

As you know, she met with us and learned what we were looking for and presented us with the best options and helped us find what was right for us.

And she didn't only help us purchase a home but is regularly checked in to see how we are doing.

She's attentive to your needs and style and comes alongside you to help you discover and find what is best for you.

That's Kathy Brothers of Keller Williams Innovate.

Tell her Travis sent you.

Well, that's it for today, folks.

If this has helped you so that you can saturate your world, then hit that subscribe button.

Do it now.

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What are your faith?

Water your world.

This is Travis Michael Fleming signing off from Apollo's Watered.

Stay watered, everybody.