#97 | Grow Your Vision for God and His People | Trillia Newbell

What was going on in the church that James was rebuking? And of course, that was about. And I did explain this in the book Socio Economic Favoritism. Right.

So James is addressing the church that we're showing favorites to the rich. So I stick to the text in that. However, the principle, the idea can be expanded. I mean, it's broadly applied.

Yeah.

So we can show favoritism based on socioeconomic, based on race and culture, based abilities, all sorts of things.

It's watering time, everybody.

It's time for Apollos Watered, a podcast to saturate your faith with the things of God so that you might saturate your world with the good news of Jesus Christ. My name is Travis Michael Fleming and I am your host.

And today on our show, we're having another one of our deep conversations, a deep conversations with author and acquisitions director Trilia Newbell. What is the sin of partiality? Right? What is it? It's how we treat other people, right? But why does God care so much about that?

And how do we get beyond the rhetoric of everybody yelling back and forth at one another and actually do it as well as positively address topics of other forms of prejudice in our own hearts in regards to ethnicity, socioeconomic class and education? That's what we're going to be talking about today.

And my guest is Trillia Newbell, who is the author of the kids book Creative God, Colorful Us and God's Very Good Idea.

She's also done a Bible study on Hebrews 11 called A Great Cloud of Witnesses and a Bible study on Romans 8, if God is for Us, as well as the books Sacred. Finding grace and strength for a lasting faith and joy. Finding the freedom to delight daily in God's good gifts, fear and faith.

Finding the peace your heart craves, and captured by God's vision for diversity.

Her writings on issues of faith, family and diversity have been published in the Knoxville News Sentinel, Desiring God, True Woman, Christianity Today, the Gospel Coalition, and more. She was also a commentator for World Radio, a sister platform for World Magazine.

Trillia has spoken at numerous conferences, churches, women's retreats, colleges and seminaries, including True Woman, Gospel Coalition, Women's Conference, Southeastern Theological Seminary, and more.

She spent seven years serving as the director of community outreach for the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission for the Southern Baptist Convention. When she isn't writing, she's encouraging and supporting other writers as the acquisitions director at Moody Publishers.

She's married to her best friend, Thurn. We're gonna get to him in a little bit.

And they reside with their two children near Nashville, Tennessee, where they enjoy hiking and eating lots of barbecue. Trilia Newbell, welcome to Apollo Swattered. Before we get to my conversation with Trilia, I want to invite you to partner with us to reach the world.

If you do want to support us, go to ApolloSweater.org and hit the support us button. Then select the proper amount that helps us rain God's water on the dry soil around the world.

And with that in mind, let's water your world with Trillia Newbell. Happy listening. Trillia Newbell, welcome to Apollo's Water.

Thank you for having me.

So here we go. Are you ready for the fast five?

Yes.

Okay, here we go. On your bio, you mentioned that you enjoy eating lots of barbecue. All right, so here's the question, is this, what's the best style of barbecue?

Kansas City, Memphis, Carolina or Texas?

Ok, I forget what all of those say, but I'll just say it this way. I don't like vinegar. I don't like vinegar based. I like Tennessee barbecue, which is probably Memphis.

Yeah.

So, so not vinegar based. So it's a kind of a savory. I don't, I don't know what it's called, but it's not watery, so probably Memphis barbecue.

I would say so anything that's a dry rub. Yum, delicious. Let's do that. And not vinegar.

What's your favorite show to binge?

Okay, so because I read so much, I actually do watch TV often at night just to decompress. And I don't have a favorite TV show because it's only been recent that I've gotten into tv.

So just, I don't know why, but it's only recent and, but I can tell you I love crime. Like TVs that.

See, you know, it's funny, somebody posted online the other day, they said if you look at my network Netflix history, it looks like I'm training to be a serial killer.

Pretty much. It's very strange. And I love detective crime. Anything like that, which is most people would probably not imagine just because of my general joy.

But it's so interesting. And I love these like, real crime shows. Like Forensic Files.

Yeah, you mean like real crimes, not like the drama stuff? Okay, you are training to be something.

But I will say that when I was younger I wanted to be a pathologist. So there's something in me that is curious about forensics. And I just have this really interesting. It's really bizarre, but there you go.

So crimes, fascinating to me. Crime. And, and so I'm That's. Those are the shows that. That interest me most, which, yeah, most people would maybe think something soft and pathology.

That's hilarious.

There you go.

I mean, what did you get when you were a kid? Like, oh, what do you want to be when you want to grow up, Julia? I want to be a pathologist. I mean, what is.

Pretty much. That was me. I actually. I even did a internship at. At a. With a detective in the 10th grade.

Really?

Yeah. Yeah.

That actually sounds super cool. It was.

It was cool, but it was also the reason why I was like, I don't think I want to do it.

Because I'm going to write books.

They were so depressed. They were so despondent what they see. And so I was like, man, I don't want to do that.

Number three, then. Strangest food you've ever eaten.

Well, it's not strange to people in the South. It's going to be strange to people in the north, which I don't even know if it's strange. Okay, so I've eaten. There's two.

I've eaten frog legs and I've eaten pig's feet. But pig's feet is a very country Southern.

Yeah.

Maybe even black thing. I don't know. But frog leg. I was at a speaking event in the middle of nowhere in Louisiana, and they.

They took me to their country restaurant, which is the. Like, the only restaurant that was available. They were like, oh, we specialize in frog legs. And it was. Frog legs is pretty common, I think.

But it was. Yeah, it's the first time I have eaten it. But pig's feet is the absolute most disgusting thing ever. It's just cartilage. Yeah. It's so gross.

And so I had that once, but I don't. I eat a lot of things. I love food, so. So I could probably name several things that your audience would be like, ew, that's weird. But I don't know.

Anybody that's listened to this show isn't going to think it's weird.

So I haven't. I'm not like. I'm not like Andrew Zimmerman, who.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I've. I've. There's there's some real bizarre foods out there, but. But most of the things I've eaten are probably rather common.

My son ate a grasshopper recently because some kid brought.

Wait. At school. Not like. Not like it's a delicacy. He just did it at school. And a dare. Your son.

No, no, no. Not a dare, everybody.

Oh, he did. Not even a Dare. He's even more awesome.

Yeah, he is totally awesome. But it was. It's actually. They have them. They have them a lot more bugs in as, like, snacks anyways.

And so a kid brought him to school and he's like, you want a grasshopper? And he was like, sure.

I draw the line on things that are living. Like, if it's still alive.

No, thanks.

I'm not going to do it. I just can't do it. All right, here we go. Number four. Funniest. We're going to go with funny. Funniest. Cross cultural experience. A funny one.

Not a terrible one. Because we've all had those.

Gosh, I don't know. Because. Okay, let me think. Cross cultural. I don't. I don't know of any that are funny.

Oh, they're. Okay. Give one of the bad ones.

I. I studied abroad. I'm not. I'm trying to think of.

Well, where did you study?

I studied in Swansea Wells. And right beside England. Wells.

Okay.

I was in the south of France.

Okay.

And went on a beach.

Enough said. It was enough said.

Yeah. I didn't know. I. Let's just say I did not know. So it's common. And so there's. You get.

Oh, yeah, I do. I was in Israel and the same thing happened in Israel. I did not know that in Israel that that occurred. And I was with Moody Bible Institute on a.

On a choir trip, and we went to the beach and I was like, oh, no, we have to leave here. This is not working. So, yeah, there's some.

Some of those awkward cultural things where you're like, wow, I don't know what to do, but it happens all the time. Okay, here we go. Last question. Last question. If you were a restaurant, what restaurant would you be and why?

I'd be a bed and breakfast.

A bed and breakfast.

So I wouldn't be a restaurant where you serve a bunch of food. I would. I love hospitality. And I. And I would. I would be.

People would stay and I would get to feed them and talk to them and then go away so they could be here today, because I don't want to talk that long. But I would be. Bed and breakfast. I would love that.

That's actually pretty awesome. I like that. What would your house be like if you were bed and breakfast?

Oh, it would be old and warm, so there might be a fire. I don't know.

It would just be inviting couches and places where people to gather and sit and enjoy and then also get away because we need our time to get away. So I had lots of rooms.

That's awesome.

Like the father's house. Yeah, I would. It would. That would be. That would be me.

Something to look forward to. Give you a plan. Who knows? Who knows? Maybe you've just declared that and your husband's listening. Going really.

About bed and breakfast, so.

Okay. All right, all right, all right. Here we go. So here we.

Before we really get into the Trillia Newbell story, I enjoy hearing history about people's names. Yours is a very unique name, as is your husband's, by the way. Very unique. So tell me, what is the history? Is it short for anything?

Is that just how it is? Where's the history of it? And I want to know about your husband's name, too, because that's very unique.

Okay, so trilia is flower. Trilly. Trillium is a wildflower. And my name was taken from that. And that is all I know. My dad made it up.

Okay.

Which it kind of fits me. And it fits. I play the flute. It fits a lot like trill. So it fits a lot of who I am. So it's kind of fun. Thern is a mistake. It's hilarious.

Thern himself, not a mistake, but his.

Name was a mistake.

His parents were listening to a TV show and they thought that they heard Thern, but it was Theron.

Oh.

They named him Thern. And the best thing is they didn't give him a middle name, so he didn't even have a choice. It was Thern. But I love his name.

It's very unique. It's actually, it's quite catchy.

I'm always paying attention to unique names and I want to know what the history is and why people name the way that they do. Because, you know, even biblically, names mean a lot, right? So. So. And I love that. I just love that mine. Mine's the worst.

Travis means toll taker at a crossroads. So annoying.

You're like everyone's most annoying. Highway experience.

Yeah. I'm like, oh, thank you. All right, have a nice day. It's the worst. Worst sounds cool. But I dug into the meaning. I was like, this is awful, Mom.

You should have done some research on this. So let's. Let's hear the Trillia Newbell story.

I don't know where to go. I'll just say I'll start with my salvation story. I became a Christian at the age of 22. Yes. So I became a Christian.

Where were you from? Where are you from? Born.

Born in Rocky Mountain, North Carolina, but raised in Knoxville Tennessee.

Okay.

So yeah, so I'm an East Tennessean, but I live in the west mid, near Nashville now.

I love how Tennesseans describe it. It's not. I'm from Tennessee. You have to describe the region of Tennessee.

Well, they're very distinct.

Yes.

And so that is so interesting. You're right now I'm just gonna think about that all the time. But they're really, they have their own culture. Cultures. So yeah, you're.

If you're an East Tennessean, you're nothing like a Memphis West Tennessee. So it's interesting. So with that said, I, I grew up in a loving home and I. But not a Christian home.

And so someone shared the gospel with me and when I was 19. But I didn't want to submit my life to the Lord at the time.

Even though I confessed sin and I talked to the person and I understood, or I heard, I kind of understood, but I heard the gospel. And it wasn't until two broken engagements later that I, yes, that I was humbled, came to that gal's church and gave my life to the Lord.

And a few later the guy that I was engaged to also gave his life to the Lord. And now we've been married for almost three years. The Lord was very faithful to break us up, to be honest. And not.

We would not have survived marriage if we would have married at the time before Christ. We just wouldn't have.

Where were you? 22 years old, I'm assuming just out of college or in your professional career at that moment in time you come to know the Lord.

So then you, you get married. I've seen photos of your husband. He's a good looking guy. I love his hairstyle because we share the same type of barber.

But I mean, but you've got somebody who comes from a Caucasian background. I mean you're from an African American background. So that's. There's a cross cultural part of that.

But even that I think is, is a story in itself trying to navigate those waters culturally. I mean, marriage is difficult no matter where you have it and who you are and your backgrounds.

But sometimes those extra layers bring some interesting things in there.

Because you've written a lot on diversity and you're in a community where you're writing about that because you're in some ways faced with it in more. I mean, in ways that most people don't realize oftentimes in our world today.

Because that's why I wanted to know what was the impetus behind many of your books writing about Diversity. And I think it's such a unique experience even. Even in your married life. There's. There's an already amazing story that's there.

So I wanted to hear about that.

It's interesting.

I get emails after emails from people who are engaged and they'll say that their family is rejecting their fiance or boyfriend because of the color of their skin. What do I do? They ask me for advice and help because they recognize I'm in an interracial marriage. And.

And there's an assumption there that it's been difficult and I've navigated all these things and um, truth be told, I have not. Thurn's parents were just. Had a different worldview and were very much opposed to racism, very justice oriented. And so I.

Yeah, so th was very opposed to racism and very justice oriented. And it. I. That was not something that I had to navigate at all.

And so now his dear grandmother before she passed away, who was just from a different era. So I think that's part of her. Her where she got her language. She would call me colored.

Oh my goodness.

Yeah. And so. But I. I can laugh only because so did a lot of black people call themselves colored. But you know, at the time.

And so she had this old language that I would navigate once once in a blue moon. When I saw her. I didn't see her ton. And then she. She died. But. But there.

There wasn't anything that I had to experience now culturally, when we got married, we. He's not. He is definitely white with a father from middle Tennessee and his mother is from England. So we.

Oh cool.

We had. We had other. Just not just an American white culture.

Oh yeah. British. British white culture which is a whole nother layer.

But the way that we've approached it is to celebrate because the way that we. We didn't come in with anxiety or how are we going to deal with this. We came in kind of embracing and enjoying and.

Which is the way that I have communicated about diversity in your books and what I do. And so. So I'm grateful for that. We didn't. It wasn't. Now there have definitely. Oh my goodness. We have different music tastes.

That doesn't matter about the skin. That's more of just your. Because I know couples that are the same ethnicity, same skin tone and have the complete opposite taste in music.

I mean cultural does play a part, don't get me wrong. But there's so many different ways of looking that on a spectrum your taste in music are a lot different. So who likes what I Lean towards.

Motown, old school R and B. I love that I'm a music person because I grew up with playing and listening. So I also like the singer, songwriter and the. Some bluegrassy. I.

Because of the musicality of it. Yeah, I do not like country music. Neither does my husband, but he can listen to some kind of alternative rock that I wouldn't prefer.

And so, so those are the kind of things that what. Where. Where we had to navigate was what we introduced to our kids. So if he is setting kind of the culture of the home, then there's.

There are certain things that would. Could permeate or could overtake. And so we've had to make sure there's a balance there. So our kids are interested in all sorts.

My son like was learning Cherokee and just very. They're very diverse in their interest because we have been.

Been so intentional to introduce diversity in our home of culture and people and our ethnicities. So Black History Month is a whole thing in our house. And yet we're also.

We've taken them to England and so, so we're very like, we're very intentional. We have not allowed our home to be just a wing. It. We been very intentional, which is fun. So our kids, like my daughter is. She's.

She loves this French artist, music artist. And so they are very curious kids. And I think that's partly because we've had to be.

Well, we made a choice to be very intentional in the way that we expose our kids to culture and art and food and history. And so it's a sweet thing that we've made sure that they understand that they are both.

They don't have to choose one ethnic ethnicity because they're not. They're both. They. And so they can, they can, they can explore and embrace that. My son, who is hilarious, but he.

On every Wednesday he wears some kind of African like a dashiki or something like that to school every Wednesday. That's what he wants to do. And so every. Every day is a little different. He's kind of fun and different anyways, but.

But on Wednesdays that's what he does and he wants to embrace all that he is. It's really cool. Yeah. So that's my family. I mean we've got a. We're a hot mess as well with all the things.

But we are very intentional on those topics.

We're going to take a quick break and hear a word from our sponsors and we'll be right back.

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Get one today because understanding the Bible changes everything. And the NLT is the Bible you can understand. This is why I love what you do, because I think that people need to see the positive.

I think when you see the different. How God shows up in different cultures and you celebrate that, your vision of God grows.

I think so.

I totally think so.

I remember reading, I can't remember exactly the author, but he likened the four angels in the book of Revelation surrounding the throne of God, saying, holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, right? And it's as if they were saying to one another, this is what I see about God. What do you see? This is what I see about God. What do you see?

And I think when you have different cultures together, you see through their eyes something about God that your cultural blind spots miss 100%. So, like when I go to India, Indians are wearing white when they.

When they preach on Sundays and they take your shoes off before you go on the platform. So there is this idea of reverence and holiness and cleanliness and purity that my cultural background doesn't have.

So when I'm with Portuguese, they're shouting and celebrating. Again, my cultural background isn't that or.

Or that when I go into African American context, more of a black church, there's a storytelling, there's the rhythm and call back and forth. And I'm more like that when I preach anyway. So I love the storytelling. I love. I love the rhythmic melody of it and the celebration.

And, you know, I go into Russian contexts where you stand to pray because that's how you dress the Almighty and there's reverence. And I think each one is so essential. And if people see that, yeah, I Love this.

I want. If. I would love to see a book I. About this. About the. The ways that. Gosh, through the lens of the nations. I'm writing this someone else. But I just.

I just would love to see. I would love to see something like that because it's. It expands our view of.

Of God.

Of God. Yeah. And. And it's beautiful. It's beautiful. I just.

So beautiful.

Yeah. Even hearing, I think. And. And we can learn something like what you described about India. We need to learn to be in awe of God, to.

To fear the Lord and to reverence. I. Well, we should learn that we speak about Jesus in jokes. I mean, we're just. He's a holy God, so we. We're just so lax. And yet I think that could.

That could change the way that we interact with each other. It can change the way that we read our Bible, though. We have.

Because we have like, we understand Hebrews 4, that we have a throne of grace, that we can approach Jesus, but we don't always get the awe. Right. And so we're not always in the Isaiah or the right me or the, you know.

Right.

So. Gosh. So all that to say. Sorry to turn this in to that conversation. But I can't help but. Because I think that you're exactly right.

It makes it a positive. Like. So I would do this thing because we had so many cultures at our church that I would tell them, give me your cultural garb and allow me.

I'd like to wear it because I want to celebrate you and I want you to wear that where you come. So we would have, you know, African women coming in with. With head. Headdresses on and the colors.

And we'd have people coming in wearing all different things. We had Corinne wearing their vests when they would. Would come in. And to me that I don't want you to have to conform to my culture.

I find my culture a little bit boring a lot of the times. And I want my vision of God to grow. I want to see God through your eyes. Because it's not that you're not.

You're just highlighting something in the diamond of who God is. And you're shining that diamond in a different aspect of light. Well, now I can see something about God and it grows.

And that's what really, I think, pains me when I see a lot of the different issues that are going on in the church when it comes to these issues. And I think that people's vision of God is just remaining dim. And you have the opportunity to See God to learn.

And honestly, John 17 is there for a reason, where Jesus says, I pray they may be one as we are one, so that the world may know that you sent me.

And when I see the different groups coming together in unity, proclaiming the excellencies of the One who called us out of darkness into his marvelous light, who made us all and fashioned us all, I'm amazed. And that's what I love about different cultures and different foods. And you don't need to be threatened because people at their core are people.

And, you know, we all want to know and be known. We want love, we want safety, we want security. We want to celebrate who we are and our heritage and our history.

And of course, there's always negative in all of our histories. You know, it depends on how far you want to go back. But I just think we have to focus on who Christ is.

I just love these kind of discussions because I think it causes us. My vision of God grows through your eyes, and I love that. And I think that's the importance of the body of Christ and benefiting from that.

But I don't want to put words in your mouth. I want to know what was your impetus, though, from writing? I mean, for writing especially.

I mean, you've written several different books, but your most recent book came out in January, the Big Wide Welcome Storybook, True Story about Jesus, James and a church that learned to love all sorts of people. So tell us about the book. Why did you write this book?

Okay, so I wrote this book because I mentioned God's very good idea, which is the first book in this series that I wrote. And it really helps kids understand the imago dei, the image of God and the gospel. And so I thought that's important. Got to know that.

Now, how do we apply that? James 2. So taking the sin of partiality and helping. Helping kids understand what is the sin of partiality, which is favoritism in some translations.

And what I use, I use that word because that's easier to understand.

Yeah, yeah.

In the big wide welcome. And what. What did. What were. What was going on in the church that James was rebuking.

Yes.

And of course, that was about. And I did explain this in the book. Socioeconomic favoritism. Right. So James is addressing the church that we're showing favorites to the rich.

So I stick to the text in that. However, the principle, the idea can be expanded. I mean, it's broadly applied.

Yeah.

So we can show favoritism based on socioeconomic, based on race and culture, based on abilities all sorts of things. So, yeah, so then I help kids. Okay, we don't want to do this with people. Now that doesn't mean you can't have your, your favorite.

A best friend, but not to the exclusion of others. Right?

So helping people understand or kids understand and giving language to welcoming people to have a big wide welcome and then how the church by extension is to be a big wide welcome.

So that is the, the reason for the book and the reason I started writing for kids at all was really because I did a Sunday school lesson and saw the response of the kids and asked the publisher to take a chance on it. And they did. And so that's how it all started, was a local church context.

That's awesome. There's all these different pieces of that because necessity is the mother of all invention, right? And we need those different voices.

And people can cry or shout at the darkness all they want, but to actually take tangible means of help changing a mindset. Because children, I think they see that that's where it starts. That's where that real deep culture part comes in.

And you know, it's my contention in Deuteronomy 6 where we have the great Shama, right? The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

The second command is pretty right after that is, and you shall teach them to your children because it's your, it's the children that learn. And it's not just also what's taught, but what's caught. And they'll know if that's real or not. And so you're bringing that out.

And I love the fact that you're bringing the story alive because I think so many people don't see how living the New Testament, I mean the Bible itself is.

But to find themselves in the cultural stories because there are, they're real cultural experiences that individuals are going through that I think that we miss when we approach the Bible. Like even Acts, Yes, Acts is the story of the church.

But it's, it's my, my, my thought that when Luke was asked to write this by Theophilus, Theophilus has him write volume one because he's like, all right, I, I have just, I believe in Jesus, but I don't know a whole lot about him. Luke, I'm going to pay for you to go on this study trip.

And I need to know who this Jesus is because my family and friends are asking and I need you to lay this out for me. And then I think volume two is okay, because the family and friends are like, why are you hanging out with all these Jewish people.

Why are you hanging out with all these cultures? And he's like, okay, Luke, I got another trip for you.

You know, I need you to, to write this out because you see all these different cultural experiences and interactions and, and the spirit of God is coming down and a lot of people just focus on that part. But I don't think they see the interactions with the Samaritans and they don't see the cultural issues that are, that are.

That's where it's lived out in the 100%.

That's why it's. I know that we have a lot of conversation about biblical literacy.

There is a reason for it, and often we misapply or we don't see all of what God has to say to us in his word about him ultimately, because we aren't looking at the context and the culture and what, what is happening within that context and culture. And we do like to cherry pick. So we love the idea of being filled with the Holy Spirit. But so, so there is a. Yes, the. I agree with you.

I agree that when we don't understand the context of what we're reading, we're not going to apply it appropriately or, or actually as fully, right?

Oh yeah, totally agree. Yeah, totally agree. Because one of the things that we talk a lot about on the show is what we call deep culture.

And deep culture is where the gospel has to permeate. We talk about surface culture too. And a great illustration that I've tried to use is Afghanistan.

You know, that's kind of in our minds, but we tried to bring democracy into Afghanistan, right?

And we have this 20 year period where we're doing it and then we pull out an immediate classes because it really wasn't owned in the deep parts of who they were. You know, their deep culture takes over. And the gospel has to be deep culture. It has to get deep down into the core being of who we are.

Not just this surface idea of, you know, I mouth it, but it transforms how we live, how we love. I still think that's the point of the Good Samaritan, where he's saying, how do you love the person who's really different than you?

And even with Acts, I think It's Acts, chapter 8, where the Samaritans haven't received the Holy Spirit yet until the Jews show up and lay hands and they receive it. And I think it's because there's such a cultural difference. The Samaritans had set up their own alternative worship system at Gerizim.

We know that from John chapter four with the Samaritan woman. And I think they were going to do the same thing with Christianity. And he's saying, no, no, no, no. Your history is connected to the Jews.

You're one people, not two. And it set that alternative up that you're one. You're one body of believers, your brothers and sisters with the people who are.

Who are different and that you've hated. Historically, you are one people.

And I think that's just something that we have lost, because I think people have different confusing ideas on what that is and the language that's being used. And of course, our media doesn't help.

Oftentimes, the algorithm kind of enforces a certain perspective of whatever your perspective is, it's going to reinforce it because it's going to keep giving you the same thing over and over again. But that's why the Bible is so awesome, because it's a corrective.

And it's such a corrective that, again, I see through your eyes the scriptures, and that changes challenges me, and it helps me to see my own. What are my cultural blind spots?

My friend Jackson Wu came on the show, and he says the more that we learn about culture, it extends the mirrors of our truck, in essence, so we can see more behind us and get a better idea.

And again, that's why I love what you're doing and what you've written, because it starts with children, to show them the truth of who God is and that this is God's idea, this is how the church is to be. And we all know that we fail in that as a church. And it has. I mean, I don't think the church has changed that much, culturally speaking, when people.

I love it when people say, oh, we're a New Testament church. And I always want to say, which one? The one that lost its first love. The one that had drunk at communion. Which one are we talking about here?

That's really good.

Well, even when Paul says, you know, I've been in danger on the streets, I've been in danger, you know, he goes through this whole thing and what I've been through, and then he goes. And then I have my daily anxiety for the churches, and it's like I'm getting these reports of these churches that are so messed up.

Yeah, yeah.

God's kingdom goes forward and his truth doesn't change. And that's what I love about what you're doing. You have a servant's heart. You have.

You have a desire to just see the kingdom of God go forth In a pretty positive way. At the end of the day, what we want to see is the kingdom of God going forth in lives transformed by the glorious gospel of Jesus.

Amen.

And. And I think that's what we want. And we can have fun in the process.

And it's fun to, like you said, highlight the different gifts that people have because God has created us to be different. And it shouldn't be a threat. It actually should be. Part of who we are is to.

I mean, there's a reason why the scripture says honor one another or, you know, outdo one another and showing honor and highlighting that. And that's what I love. Even about what we do.

We get to highlight people like yourself and your work so that other people can grow and then they can fulfill the mission of God in their world. I mean, that's our theme. We say water your faith so you can go water your world. What's your world?

I don't know your world, but I can introduce you to people that might help you water your world. Because I don't know your world, I don't know your culture.

But I want to learn, I want to listen, I want to admire, and I want to grow, because you're going to tell me and show me who Jesus is in a greater way. And I think that's what people need to see, is just to be able to listen. What do you hope to accomplish?

I mean, what do you hope God does with your work?

Oh, I hope he glorifies himself and that people would be drawn to him and that lies would be transformed. Gosh, if he. If he does that, and I have a lot of faith, he will. I just. I've seen it.

Well, he's already doing that. And that's the awesome thing.

I just don't think he's going to waste my time. His time. I just don't see. I don't think he's going to do that.

So I have a lot of faith that he's going to use this work for his glory and the good of others. Your work, the work. He just doesn't waste it. I don't believe he will. So. So that is my hope. But I also believe he's gonna do it. So, yeah, that's.

I just love it when God does cool stuff like that. And I hope and I echo that for you. And how can people learn more about what you're doing? How can they follow you?

And, I mean, we know you can find your book online. Anybody can use a computer, can find you on Amazon. But hell, how else can they follow you?

Yeah. So if you find my website, then you will find out all sorts of ways to find me.

So from social media to contact, even so it's just trillianewell.com so if you can, if you have Google, put Trillia New bell in there and you will find me.

Not a lot of trillion new bells out there either.

It makes it really easy. I do not have. My name is not Amy. It's true. I think you will be able to find me Amy's and the Beths and the Melissa's. That's hard.

Thank you for coming on Apollo's Watered. I want to thank Trillia for coming on the show because this topic is one that's extremely important.

I know that some tire from seeing it in the news a lot, but it's because it affects so many different lives. That's why Jesus talked about it.

That's why the New Testament is filled with example after example of people having to work together and trying to find the commonalities.

The differences are there for sure, but we can see that the differences, rather than being negatives, can actually be positives because they can enhance our view of God. I would encourage you to check out Trillia's work when you get the chance. And I wanted to thank you for listening to Apollo's Watered.

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This is Travis Michael Fleming signing off from Apollo's Watered. Stay watered everybody.